The Ultimate Newbie Guide to Thailand

P4P - Relations with Bar Girls

The details concerning the interactions between the lady and her customer is another topic that is of particular importance to a newbie. Again, the purpose here is not to discuss ďhow muchĒ, but rather to get an understanding of what may be expected.

When hooking up with a Thai lady in the P4P arena the "commitment" is usually defined either as ST or LT, which means Short Time or Long Time (see Abbreviations).

ST: ST generally means an hour, but sometimes two, or if you so negotiate, it could be less or more. ST may not be defined by a set time, but rather the time it takes to pop once. In ST and BJ bars this is especially true where the rule may be one pop or one hour, whichever comes first.

LT: LT usually means overnight and will be from the time of the bar fine (BF) to when she wants to leave in the morning or to when you have agreed for her to leave. If you specifically do not want her to leave too early in the morning, make sure you clear that before the BF. Without such agreement 6-7AM is not unusual for her to depart.
Some ladies are reluctant to agree to a LT BF too early in the evening as she (in the name of money) may be able to get a ST early and the a LT later. If not gaining an extra BF she may at least be able to get more lady drinks (LD) while she is still in the bar and from which she collect commissions.


GFE: A GFE (Girl Friend Experience) is usually a succession of two or more LTís where the lady does not return to the place of employment in-between. A GFE can be 2 days and it can be two months; up-to-you as the lady may say. If you engage in a GFE it is important to understand that you, in addition to payment for time and set number of BF's, also pay for on going expenses, such as food, entertainment, shopping, etc. Unless you are certain about the lady and how long you really wants her company, do not pay the BF for longer periods than you can commit to as you can always extend it. This is best for both parties.

Payments: In Thailand it is customary to pay for the services after they are rendered. Often you will hear people (jokingly) say: "I don't pay the girl for sex, I pay her to leave". The long and the short of it is that once you pay you likely also free her of her motivations (money). Likewise, by paying the girl you are also indicating that the session is over.
Some are uncomfortable about handing the money to the girl; in this case simply find a suitable moment put the money half way under her purse making sure they are visible.
In some rare cases the bar may want to charge for all services in advance; this is not customary and most will strongly recommend avoiding this.
In the case of a GFE you may choose (or be asked) to pay in some periodic installments, but always retroactive.

Negotiation (Services): Since every bar/Go-Go girl is the individual providing the services, never assume anything (at least not if is important to you). This may include length of stay, certain sexual favors, if taking two ladies the expected level of interaction, number of pops, etc.
This can actually be very intimidating to a newbie, but most ladies are well used to it. A good idea is to bring each subject up as part of a conversation and perhaps using a bit of humor. For example, ask her if she smoke and whether you get a yes or no point out that you did not mean cigarettes. Smoke (or Smaoke) is a common word for oral sex among the bar girls.

Mamasan or Papasan: Many establishments will have one or more mamasan (or a papasan) on staff, who is a supervisor of the girls and who will have (in most cases) good knowledge of the ladies dos, doníts and specialties. If you are looking for someone or something in specific, ask the mamasan. Some people agree or disagree with the sincerity of the mamasan and whether she always suggest what is best for the customer or whether she may have an underlying motive (favorites or kick-back money). Mamasan's may be found in just about any of the venues, but never in therapeutic massage places and rarely in beer bars. In the case of a beer bars where the bar manager may to some extend assume this role. Papasan's are more common in Soapy Massage Parlors.

Threesomes: What man does not have a fantasy of being with two (or more) girls at the same time? If the experience is good, most will go back again and again. Not all girls will agree to it, but many will. Simply ask and you will get the answer. Be careful how you ask as you may easily be misunderstood or the girls idea of you having two girls may not be the same as yours. Ask if she likes girls and you will invariably get a firm yes; of cause she likes girls as she has many friends that are girls. Even getting past that potential little misunderstanding getting two girls to your room does not necessarily mean a threesome. Their idea may be do one first and then the other, even to the point that they insist that one waits in the bathroom and then they switch roles.
To avoid misunderstandings be very direct and specific. Ask them if they like "lesbian" and you will get an answer to what you really want. Ask them if they like to kiss each other, even ask them to show you before the bar fine.
This is one situation where the bar manager, mamasan or papasan may be able to help you target the right girls. Once you find one girl that agrees and suits you, have her help you pick out the second; this will help insure compatibility.
A fail-safe option is to visit one of the venues that specializes in multiple girls experiences.

WishCard Maker. To help in communicating better when soliciting a threesome a new tool has been made available on this site that will allow you to create a detailed card using an extensive list of statement choices in English and instantly create a WishCard in both English and Thai. Click Here.

Ladyboys: A ladyboy (LB) is a Transsexual man (Katoey in Thai). For those who desire such encounters they are available in great numbers. Some are absolutely stunning and for the untrained eye or unsuspecting punter they may just be some of the most beautiful "women" you have ever seen. A large number of ladyboys in Thailand have gone through extensive transformations including breast augmentation (at times very large), hormone treatment, etc. A few have even gone through gender reassignment.
There are bars that exclusively feature ladyboys and some will employ both ladyboys and ladies, while many have rules against their employ. A larger percentage of ladyboys operate as freelancers.
If ladyboys are in your game or something you like to explore you will have little or no difficulty and if you are concerned with any associated stigma, you have no need to worry as the Thais have no such reservation and other tourists quickly stop noticing.
If ladyboys are some you wish to avoid your best defense, if in doubt, is to simply ask (Are you ladyboy?). Ladyboys tend to overdo their looks to almost become more feminine than a real lady. If she looks too good to be true, it just may be a ladyboy. For more information please see this section: Spotting Ladyboys or Katoeys

Girls for Girls: It goes without saying that the P4P scene in Thailand is mostly a playground for men. A common question is whether it is possible for women to monger there. Will Thai P4P ladies let western women bar fine them? The short answer is YES. The reality is that some will and some will not. A fair number of bar girls will partake in threesomes. It could actually be easier for a western women (or couples) to bar fine a Thai lady than it would be for a man to bar fine two of them. In Thailand there is very little stigma in general, whether that being ladyboys (transsexuals), large differences in age, interracial, etc., however, when it comes to lesbian activity there certainly is some. That said the P4P scene and its avenue to make money overrides most of that, especially if the other female partner is a westerner. The name of the game is simply to make money.

Respect: Well there obviously are many ways to have relations with the ladies, whether that relates to duration, activity, quantity, gender, etc. Whatever you choose is up to you, but in any event please display some respect. They may be prostitutes and perhaps your mother will not respect them, but the reality is that you, the customer, is a punter and as such is on equal footing.
Thailand is one of the few places in the world where P4P and having a short term relationship can go hand in hand. The girls love to have fun and if you play along with that the both of you will likely have a good time that goes beyond just sex. The more they like you the better the chance that they will provide the services you negotiated and do so to make sure you are happy.
In the end, don't forget to pay them fairly. If you negotiated a price then that certainly is what is fair (perhaps plus a bit for extra good performance). If you did not negotiate a price, the ball is really in your court.

Session Gone Bad: As it goes with any business transaction a particular session may not be to your satisfaction or it may even go tits up. So what does one do in these situations.
If the session simply falls a bit short of expectations take it in strive. To have better than average experiences one must also have one that is below average. When all is done pay her what you negotiated or whatever is normally fair, let her go and don't ever bar fine her again.
If the session goes tits up and she wants to leave after a short time when having agreed to LT, the wise thing is to pay what's fair for ST even if it may seem unfair to you. Not doing so could result in unpredictable reactions on her part and be assured that an angry Thai is not something you want to experience. Especially if she is so angry she returns with some "friends". As much as you may feel you have been screwed you do not want to risk your well being for a few hundred or a thousand baht. This scenario is also covered in the Scams and Dangers in Thailand section.

Sponsorship/Relationship: As difficult as this subject may be it is very real. Men travel to Thailand to experience an abundance of sex and, whammmm, they fall in love or they fall in lust with the fantasy of having a lover in or a girlfriend Thailand. Success stories are real and they are not uncommon; reports about illusions, deceits and disappointments are MUCH MORE plentiful. If you cannot be there [Thailand] near full time or cannot get her to your home country in the short term, donít bother. This is of cause unless you can agree that she continues to solicit and see other customers (making your status more like VIP customer).
In a third world county money is often a bit more important than faith and love. Perhaps more accurately doing it for money may not be seen as unfaithful, but rather just a job. Actually many of the girls already have Thai boyfriends or husbands (AKA brothers). These are men who also are fully copacetic with the girl earning money as she knows best and who in particular are happy when she gains a sponsor sending her (and him) money on an ongoing basis.
You will often hear experienced travelers giving this advise to newbie say: "Rule number ONE: Donít fall in love; then add that this is also rule number two and rule number three".
Enjoy your trip for the reason you set out and be mindful that this in most cases
is a game about earning money.
Links to three downloads are provide through this guide: Private Dancer by Steven Leathers and Thai Girls & Sending Money; click on each link for more details. If you do find yourself in a situations where you do want to enter a relationship with a Thai girl you will be strongly advised to research the many cultural differenced you soon will face. Thailand Fever is a recommended book. The same book is in English and Thai language and servers to educate both the Thai and the Westerner about each others cultures and potential conflicts. Click here to link to the official ThailandFever.com website where chapter one is available for reading. Free downloads of the book are not available.

   

Video posted on YouTube capturing a bar girl talking with her sponsor, all the while she is in the company with another man (customer).

The Ultimate Newbie
Guide to Thailand

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